William Penwell

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Posts by William Penwell

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  44

  what kind of addict are you?

  by Incense_and_Peppermints in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you are addicted to life!

  you are outgoing and content with yourself.

  you make friends easily and have high goals to aim for.

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  William Penwell

  It was Life for me to.

  Will
• 
  5

  What does Apostate REALY mean??

  by Jesika in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i found this posted on the women-awake group.

  i found it interesting----do remember that the comments made after are not mine, even though i thought they were good comments--i won't take credit for them.

  apostates and apostasy reconsidered.

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  William Penwell

  Good post Jes,

  The point here is that the definition of apostate is really not a bad word. "An Apostate is a person who has given up their religion or left a political party." Its the WT that has demonized the meaning to be of one that disagrees with anything the mother organization says and is labeled as being wicked and evil. We know how WT teachings have changed over the years and those that once would have been labeled as apostate maybe now would be a good dub.

  Will
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  64

  WHICH MEETING WAS THE MOST BORING?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the more meetings you go to the more drivel you hear.

  elder's meetings were terrible because all you ever did was gossip about how everyone wasn't doing this or that.

  meetings for field service sucked.....enough said on that.

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  William Penwell

  funkyderek,

  I remember one time an elders prayer was so long, another brother commented that he didn't know brother so and so had a part in the meeting also.

  Will
• 
  64

  WHICH MEETING WAS THE MOST BORING?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the more meetings you go to the more drivel you hear.

  elder's meetings were terrible because all you ever did was gossip about how everyone wasn't doing this or that.

  meetings for field service sucked.....enough said on that.

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  William Penwell

  berten,

  You write about the 4 day District conventions, but do you remember in 1969 the 8 day international convention??? Yes and it was like you said it had evening sessions to. If I recall the mornings during the week were left open for field service, where the city was bombarded by all these good dubs knocking on doors.

  Someone mentioned the boring Sunday pupil talks. I agree, I think about 80% of the elders are not qualified to give talks. They don't understand the concept of making a point, they just talk and talk about nothing at one monotone level in their voice. I read that this was a deliberate mind control technique. That the listener eventually turns their mind of and thus is open to suggestions.

  Will
• 
  64

  WHICH MEETING WAS THE MOST BORING?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the more meetings you go to the more drivel you hear.

  elder's meetings were terrible because all you ever did was gossip about how everyone wasn't doing this or that.

  meetings for field service sucked.....enough said on that.

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  William Penwell

  Most boring has to be Written Review night at the service meeting with a clock right in front of you. God time would actually go backwards I think.

  Will
• 
  26

  THE ATTITUDE OF A BETHELITE

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of the most interesting things that i have noticed about being a witness is the awe that is given to bethelites.

  it seems that if you are a bethelite, you are accorded special privleges in congregations.

  you are honored when you visit a hall.

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  William Penwell

  I know some of the dubs almost worship the bethelites. If a bethelite spoke, it was as if God himself had spoke. I know one sister that was saying about this brother and she added "well he is a bethelite you know". I said so, and she replied "well you know they are closer to God's organization so they have better insight to things".

  Will
• 
  27

  Theocratic War Strategy at my house

  by freeman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well it looks like i find myself in the middle of the jw battlefield once again fighting the borg for nothing less then the soul of my younger son.

  many months ago i had forbidden my full-blown dub wife from bringing my young boy to cult programming, i mean meetings anymore.

  at issue was the shunning and blood issue.

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  William Penwell

  This didn't surprise me in the least that they would have your son sneak behind your back like that. In their twisted minds they reason that it was to save your sons life, so they can justify lying. I do agree with others on here that as soon as you take a hard stand against the cult, they will fight back. They will turn your wife and son against you. Don't forget they have brain washed them into believing that Satan is controlling you and you are being used as his tool to mislead them away from the "truth". Same thing happened with my children. My ex took them to all the meetings etc. She told them as long as I was DF'd they couldn't have too much to do with me etc. That was eight years ago. Today both my kids are old enough and they walked away from it themselves. They recognize what it is, a dangerous cult...

  Will

  Edited by - William Penwell on 1 August 2002 0:46:54
• 
  13

  The new insert in the Kingdom Ministry........

  by kat7302 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i found out today that there is a new insert in the kingdom ministry coming up which is all about how to treat disfellowshipped ones.

  aparrently they are clamping down on it big time.

  has anyone else heard of this or seen it?

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  William Penwell

  How far will some brothers go? Leaping out of a room quickly if one happens to be eating a bag of crisps, whilst (God forbid) a DF JW sits down with a sandwich in the same room?

  Some dubs are that ridicules. I remember a friend telling me about her dad, he was DF'd and a dub friend of hers came over to visit her. She said her dad answered the door and without her saying a word to him, it was as if he wasn't there, she was looking inside the house to see if her friend was home. I mean this is how far some of these religious cult fanatics take things.

  Will
• 
  7

  I once was a Jehovahs witness

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i once was a jehovahs witness.

  who believed some crazy things, now get this.

  soon will come armageddon, to kill you all dead then.

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  William Penwell

  There once was a Jdub named Bob,

  Who was nothing but an pederass slob.

  He got in is car

  And drove very far.

  Just so he could let Johnny play with his knob.....
• 
  13

  The new insert in the Kingdom Ministry........

  by kat7302 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i found out today that there is a new insert in the kingdom ministry coming up which is all about how to treat disfellowshipped ones.

  aparrently they are clamping down on it big time.

  has anyone else heard of this or seen it?

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  William Penwell

  Display Christian Loyalty when a Relative Is Disfellowshipped

  1

  The bond between family members can be very strong. This brings a test upon a Christian when a marriage mate, a child, a parent, or another close relative is disfellowshipped or has disassociated himself from the congregation. (Matt. 10:37) How should loyal Christians treat such a relative? Does it make a difference if the person lives in your household? First, let us review what the Bible says on this subject. the principles of which apply equally to those who are disfellowshipped and to those who disassociate themselves.

  2 "Now to Treat Expelled Ones:

  God's Word commands Christians not to keep company or fellowship with a person who has been expelled from the congregation: "Quit mixing in eompan,y with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a re viler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.... Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (1 Cor.5:11, 13) Jesus' words recorded at Matthew 18:17 also bear on the matter: "Let [the expelled one] be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." Jesus' hearers well knew that the Jews of that day had no fraternization with Gentiles and that they shunned tax collectors as outcasts. Jesus was thus instructing his followers not to associate with expelled ones.--See The Watchtower of September 15, 1981. pages 18-20.

  3 This means that loyal Christians do not have spiritual fellowship with anyone who has been expelled from the congregation. But more is involved. God's Word states that we should 'not even eat with arch a man.' (1 Cor. 5:11) Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person. 'this would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, or trip to the shops or theatre or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant.

  4 What about speaking with a disfellowshipped person? While the Bible does not cover every possible situation, 2 John 10 helps us to get Jehovah's view of matters: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him." Commenting on this, The Watchtower of September 15.1981, page 25, says: "A simple'Hello' to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship- Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?"

  5 Indeed, it is just as page 31 of the same issue of The Watchtower states: "The fact is that when a Christian gives himself over to sin and has to be disfellowshiped. he forfeits much: his approved standing with God; . . . sweet fellowship with the brothers, including much of the association he had with Christian relatives."

  6

  1n the Immediate Household: Does this mean that Christians living in the same household with a disfellowshipped family member are to avoid talking to, eating with, and associating with that one as they go about their daily activities? The Watchtower of April 15, 1991, in the footnote on page 22, states: - If in a Christian's household there is a disfellowshipped relative, that one would still be part of the normal, dayto-day household dealings and activities." Thus, it would be left to members of the family to decide on the extent to which the disfellowshipped family member would be included when eating or engaging in other household activities. And yet, they would not want to give brothers with whom they associate the impression that everything is the same as it was before the disfellowshipping occurred

  7 However, Pie Walchtolrer of September 15, 1981, page 28, points out regarding the disfellowshipped or disassociated person: "Former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle.... That will mean changes in the spiritual fellowship that may have existed in the home. For example, if the husband is disfellowshiped, his wife and children will not be comfortable with him conducting a family Bible study or leading in Bible reading and prayer. It he wants to say a prayer, such as at mealtime. lie has a right to do so in his own home. But they can silently offer their own prayers to God. (Prov. 28:9; Ps. 119:145, 146) What if a disfellowshiped person in the home wants to be present when the family reads the Bible together or has a Bible study? The others might let him be present to listen if he will not try to teach them or share his religious ideas."

  8 " If a minor child living in the home is disfellowshipped, Christian parents are still responsible for his upbringing. The Walchlou?er of November 15, 1988, page 20, states: "Just as they will continue to provide hitn with food, clothing, and shelter, they need to instruct and discipline him in line with God's Word. (Proverbs 6:20-22; 29:17) Loving parents may thus arrange to have a home Bible study with him, even if he is disfellowshipped. Maybe he will derive the most corrective benefit from their studying with him alone. Or they may decide that he can continue to share in the family study arrangement."-See also The Watchtower of October 1, 2001, pages 16-17.

  9

  Relatives Not in the Household: "The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home," states The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family mat ters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum," in harmony with the divine injunction to "quit mixing in company with anyone" who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minitntun. See also The Wat ehtoirer of September 15, 1981, pages 29-30.

  10

  The Walchtower addresses another situation that can arise: "What if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) ... What is done may depend on factors such as the parent's true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household." The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 28-9.

  11" As for a child, the same article continues: "Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become ptnysically , or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son Lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life'? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring 'leaven' into the home?-Gal. 5:9.

  12 "

  Benefits of Being Loyal to Jehovah: Co operating with the Scriptural arrangement to disfellowship and shun unrepentant wrongdoers is beneficial. It preserves the cleanness of the congregation and distinguishes us as upholders of the Bible's high moral standards. (1 Pet. 1:1416) It protects us from corrupting intluences. (Gal. 5:7-9) It also affords the wrongdoer an opportunity to benefit fully from the discipline re ceived, which can help him to produce "peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness."- Heb. 12:11.

  13 "After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother. and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter. his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also. her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized.

  14 ' Loyally upholding the disfellowshipping arrangement outlined in the Scriptures demonstrates our love for Jehovah and provides an answer to the one that is taunting Him. (Prov. 27: 11) In turn, we can be assured of Jehovah's blessing. King David wrote regarding Jehovah: "As for his statutes, I shall not turn aside from them. With someone loyal you will act in loyalty."-2 Sam. 22:23, 26.

  1. What situation can test a Christian's loyalty?

  2. According to the Bible, how are Christians to treat those expelled from the congregation?

  3, 4. What. sort of fellowship with disfellowshipped and disassociated people is forbidden?

  5. When disfellowshipped, what does a person forfeit?

  6. Is a Christian required to cut off all association with a disfellowshipped relative living in the same household? Fxplain.

  7. How does spiritual fellowship within the home change when a family member is disfellowshipped?

  8. What responsibility do Christian parents have toward a minor disfellowshipped child living in the home?

  9. To what extent should a Christian have contact with a disfellowshipped relative living outside the home?

  10, 11. What will a Christian consider before allowing a disfellowshipped relative to move into the home'?

  12. What are some benefits of the disfellowshipping arrangement?

  13. What actjustment did one family make, and with what result?

  14. Why should we loyally support the disfellowshippin(( arrangement?